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tina2



Posts : 3
Join date : 2013-05-27

PostSubject: watermarking   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:42 am

dear sms

I would appreciate it if you would stop watermarking the pages of the mangas. You don't have the right to claim the work that way since you are not the original artist.

I understand that you are trying to save your work from plagiarists and others. Give credit to the original author where it is due. An editor should only get a by-line.

According to the fair use act when you take someones work you must make some significant changes therefore make it your own work. However just taking a managa and translating it is not enough to lay claim.

The internet was founded on the premise of sharing. When a programmer comes across a program he steals it and makes changes to make it his own. He does not have to recreate it from scratch. We don't have to recreate the wheel to use it for our own purposes.

Knock offs are allowed on the market as long as it is not just a recreation of the original. It has to have some significant changes. Plagiarism is the same. As long as it is not word for word it is yours. You still need to give credit to the originator even work with them if possible.

So if someone takes your scans and re-edits it they don't have to give you credit although it would be nice if they were to do so. They only have to give the source of the original author. Otherwise the credit pages on books would be almost as long as the book if they had to give credit to the editors of every edition (especially in the case of the bible) O well anything over 40 years old is free to use anyways.

In the cases of the translated mangas posted on the internet it has been deemed that there is not enough significant changes to fall under the fair use act that is why people who host the mangas have to take some of their mangas off because the author has the copyrights. If scanlators acted a bit more professional and didn't do stuff like watermarking the pages it would be easier on all of us to be able to continue to use and enjoy these bootlegged scans.
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lethalene
Elite Member
Elite Member


Posts : 54
Join date : 2012-04-20

PostSubject: Re: watermarking   Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:35 pm

Uh, sorry for being blunt but your comment isn't relevant. I am not a member of shojomanhwa. But I did help them in the past by cleaning a few pages of Lingerie. I have worked on projects for other groups and also worked officially for a publisher.

Scanlation is per se illegal. What I'm gonna write is not the official speech from publishers and other professionals but my own view. Either you read the shojomanhwa's releases knowing the difference between a scanlation and an official copy, or you go buy a legal copy if you can afford it.

Don't ask for a scanlator to be professional, it is rude. They are amateurs who are spending their time and sometimes money working on these projects and sharing them for free with the fans. If you so want a professional work, do it yourself or pay for it.

Edit: Sorry if I sound snappy, but lots of readers in the past were rude with scanlators and your comment is not exactly the most diplomatic.
If you think you have the skills or suggestions to improve the translation, scanning, editing or proofreading, you can offer your help to a scanlator. They are often in need of helping hands.


I bought all the official digital Harlequin comics in English and actually prefer that Shojomanhwa put a watermark on the pages of those projects to differentiate the legal copy from their illegal one. Scanlators put watermarks for recognition and to annoy people who can't stand them and would buy an offficial copy free of watermarks instead of reading an illegal one for free.
But watermarks can also be usefull when someone who's not entitled to do it, has the idea of selling the scanlations and free scans of the official book. At least the readers could have a clue they've been ripped off.

What I regret is that people think lots of Shojomanhwa's releases were translated by the group when they were only sharing the official English copies and some readers were whining why the books are sold at ebookstores Rolling Eyes. Shojomanhwa could be clearer on this topic and link those projects to a page where people can buy the official copy, but I also think the readers are responsible for not seeking themselves the official ebooks and purchase them.

Yet I'm not complaining because I'm grateful the group does also scanlate lots of mangas and manhwas which have not been licenced yet. Beggars can't be choosers. Or try convincing some American publisher to licence the books you're interested in and wait for the release of the official translated versions to purchase them.
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tina2



Posts : 3
Join date : 2013-05-27

PostSubject: Re: watermarking   Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:05 am

Well actually I do have the skills and the knowledge of English grammar. I have joined a scanlation group. I was considering this one until... I was editing some of their old stuff and ran across a shield. not just a watermark. I have 30 of them I have not uploaded them it was for my own enjoyment. Almost sent them here because they were theirs.

They also deleted my account just because I had not said thank you. Not nice behavior. Its like they are putting the stuff under lock and key with a guard dog. I have my standards and this is not it.

Quickly posting mangas is one thing but it is sub-standard on most of them. So much so that I stopped reading their mangas before I edited them.

I would help if they met my standards. But since my appeal is taken this way oh well.
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lethalene
Elite Member
Elite Member


Posts : 54
Join date : 2012-04-20

PostSubject: Re: watermarking   Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:24 am

Standards vary depending on people. Some groups offer high quality scanlation which could teach professionals how to do properly their work, and others offer every range of scanlation quality.
Either you choose a group with high standards, or you form a one-person group or create your own scanlation team, or you join a group that you think you can help improve their skills.

We all would love to have only high quality scanlations. But most scanlation groups are founded by fans firstly, often who don't know the first thing about how to translate, edit or scan. They can only do their best with what they have and who's willing to help. It's just volunteers and skillful people are too rare since usually, skillful people prefer to be paid for a job. And the very few good staff members are in high demand. But scanlation takes a helluva lot of time and energy, only feed by one's enthusiasm. When people are no longer motivated or the workload is too much, they quit. Other fans might take over.


I don't criticize other scanlators unless they're just making spoof releases. If publishers don't licence the comics I'm interested in, and no oneĀ  wants to scanlate it, I'd be grateful to any person who'd make the effort of bringing the story to other fans in an understandable language. Better a rough translation, at least to get the gist about what's happening, than nothing at all. Again, beggars can't be choosers. And other more skillful scanlators can always release a better version afterwards.

Each scanlation team have their own modus operandi, their habits and such. Advice for them to improve their translations or editing is welcome when it is expressed politely. But the matter of watermarking is up to the scanlators themselves and their policy.

The bigger the watermarks, the harder it is for readers to ignore them and it makes it also harder for other scanlators to edit them and claim they belong to them. Needless to say that scammers who would sell those scans would have a tougher job erasing the logos.

I personally prefer discreet logos and semi-transparent watermarking, but this I apply only to my pet projects. When I work with other groups or for my publisher, my preferences don't matter, I have to follow their guidelines and requirements.

Edit: As for deleted accounts, read the forum rules and announcements. It's the scanlators' prerogative to delete any account as they please. In this forum, the administrator is nice enough to reactivate an account if you ask them to. I was kicked out of a few forums and groups for various reasons, sometimes related to me unintentionally neglecting a rule, sometimes because of other users violating rules so it was a collective punishment, sometimes on the administrator's whim. Most times, I just had to register again but in 2 cases, I had no longer the possibility to join again the community. It's sad but I just moved on to other groups.

If you want to call the shots, just create your own community.


Edit 2: Tina2, I'm not talking in the name of shojomanhwa. You can always offer your help to them and they may be happy to take it. I only expressed my point of view and noting the way you phrased your comment wouldn't have been taken well by many scanlators who also received similar remarks in the past by other fans. And they expressed what they thought of it. I just compiled advice and warnings on the topic for you if you want to communicate smoothly with scanlators. So far, the shojomanhwa team is a lot more nicer and patient than many scanlators.
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